Curse

Skye Marin · Apr 29, 2007, 04:52 AM // 04:52

I really enjoy the Paragon class, but it's lacking having a number of skills that make it a fair team player. Skills that benefit the whole team, but don't compound exponentially when multiple copies are used on a team full of Paragons. I've taken a handful of underused Paragon Elites, and reworked this to this purpose. Enjoy:

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Incoming!
10/20
For 1...3 seconds, all party members within earshot take 50% less damage.

This skill has been nerfed to oblivion because multiple Paragons could sustain it, causing an extremely potent and passive defense. To fix the skill, you need to make it a more active defense. This can be done by having it target only one person, or a small group of people.

Incoming!
5/15
For 1...5 seconds, target ally and up to 2 nearby allies take 50% less damage.

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Defensive Anthem
15/1/25
For 4...10 seconds, each party member within earshot has a 50% chance to block incoming attacks. This Chant ends if that party member hits with an attack skill.

This skill can be compared to Aegis, with a few key differences. First, it can't be stripped, second, it has limited effect on attacking allies, and third, it's elite. Overall, the skill isn't especially potent because it's another form of passive defense. If buffed, multiple copies could cause a team to be overly defensive. A unique solution is in order.

Defensive Anthem
15/2/25
For 4...20 seconds, each party member has a 25..75% chance to not take extra damage from critical hits and has +1..4 health regeneration. This Chant ends if that party member hits with an attack skill.

This skill now prevents select sources of high damage, as well as helping to fend off pressure as a whole. By increasing the duration and making the skill a little less potent (compared to +6 regen, or 100% chance of damage reduction), it discourages using several copies of the same skill. The idea is to create a new type of defensive type not normally seen which will combine well with other types of conventional defensive abilities.

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It's just a flesh wound!
5/1
You suffer from a Deep Wound for 10...6 seconds, and target other ally loses all Conditions.

While this is the fastest recharging condition removal in the game, it's not the most efficient. Restore Condition even heals for a significant amount and also can only be targeted on other people. 5 energy for a single target shout on a Paragon is pretty pricey too. Here's my take:

It's just a flesh wound!
5/1
You suffer from a Deep Wound for 10 seconds, and target ally loses all Conditions. You gain one strike of adreniline for every condition removed (maximum 0..2)

This lets you cast it on yourself to give more utility. It gives a solid source of adreniline gain. The Deep wound doesn't scale any more for similar reasons why Chilblains' poison doesn't scale.

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The Power is Yours!
10/20
All party members within earshot gain 1...7 Energy. For 10 seconds, you have -10 Energy degeneration.

This skill cripples the user too much to be much use. If buffed, the direct energy gain may prove to be exploitable. The spirit of the skill is an elite skill that gives energy management to the team. Let's roll with that.

The Power is Yours!
5/10
For 5..15 seconds, target other ally gains +1..3 Energy regeneration. For 15..5 seconds, and you suffer -2 Energy degeneration. This skill has half range.

This essentially makes the skill an elite Paragon blood ritual. By removing the health sacrifice and casting time, the skill gains it's elite status. Health sacrifice is replaced with energy sacrifice, which isn't a big problem for a Paragon, considering energy gain is pretty easy with Leadership.

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What are your thoughts?

Curse You · Apr 29, 2007, 05:09 AM // 05:09

Incoming was nerfed because it was to powerful before. I highly doubt that they're going to buff it now.

gameshoes3003 · Apr 29, 2007, 06:28 AM // 06:28

Yeah, Incoming was ridiculously powerful beforehand. But now, its a bit difficult to buff it since it's a shout.

tenshi_strife · Apr 29, 2007, 06:36 AM // 06:36

i really like your ideas really cause paragons need love lol

Wish Swiftdeath · Apr 29, 2007, 07:07 AM // 07:07

just use cautery signet(E) + Remedy sig, it pwns and keeps conditions off your team all the time, 15 second recharge isn't. Paragorn's seriously need buffs though and your idea's are good, not overpowered but good skills nonetheless.

Racthoh · Apr 29, 2007, 07:19 AM // 07:19

On Incoming, personally I would simply change it back to the original duration and have it end if you use a skill or something alone those lines. The skill shouldn't have the potential to be chained like it was before reducing pressure entirely, but it shouldn't require a high spec to stop a quick spike. I do like your change though; it isn't a mindless "Something is dying and now it isn't" you would have to be paying attention and physically target the ally.

With the introduction of hard mode, I have falling in love with Defensive Anthem. I don't think your altered form would really make me want to play it over its current form.

Blocking an entire attack is a lot better than reduced damage from a critical hit. Halts adrenaline gain, breaks assassin combos, basically the potential on breaking a spike and slowing pressure. In the event I wanted my allies to have a party wide health regeneration, I could always use Never Surrender! (or Never Give Up! whichever one it is) to counter that effect. If I have allies above 75% health, they're not on my priority healing list anyhow and wouldn't need the added health regen of your proposed changed.

Once Defensive Anthem is up, your enemies have to wait it out. That alone makes it very potent.

Quote:

The idea is to create a new type of defensive type not normally seen which will combine well with other types of conventional defensive abilities.

The problem with this is you create too strong a defense. Stacking blocks, blinds and miss hexes on top of unstrippable health regeneration creates a rather stale environment.

IJAFW... I think it's fine but simply outclassed by Restore Condition in some aspects. It's a strong elite and does see enough play. Double deep wound reduction @ 0 spec makes it as strong as 12.

The Power Is Yours!... seen it played, but never had the time to play with it myself. Can't comment much.

lyra_song · Apr 29, 2007, 07:33 AM // 07:33

some good ideas there.

I think incoming needs to be something along the lines of....

"For X seconds, all non-moving adjacent allies take 50% less damage. This shout ends if you move, attack or are knocked down"

explanation: When i hear the name "Incoming!", i think of someone bracing themselves for an attack, so MOVING while bracing yourself is contradictory. As such, being knocked down doesnt allow you to brace for an impact at all. Attacking is also opposite of bracing for an impact.

Firestone · Apr 29, 2007, 05:56 PM // 17:56

won't it be better to juz change the functionality such that the same skill cannot be used again while the original skill is still recharging? this will effectively nerf paraway.

eg.
first incoming last for 7 sec... takes 20 sec to recharge.
So, while it is recharging the 20 sec, no one in party can cast a 2nd incoming. (like getting hit by vocal minority).

If all the functionality is changed for shouts / chants / echo / etc ... i doubt skills will be abused in pvp... and it will still stay viable in pve.

skills like The Power Is Yours, however needs a rework... Able to function like BiP is better.

eg.
For 10 seconds, all party members gains +1..4 Energy regeneration. For 10 seconds, and you suffer -10 Energy degeneration.

eg.
Defensive Anthem
For 4...10 seconds, each party member within earshot has a 75% chance to block incoming attacks. The next time target ally gets hit by an attack, that ally is healed for 16...67 and Defensive Anthem ends.

Wildi · Apr 29, 2007, 06:33 PM // 18:33

all paragon skills should get unnerfed & duration of shouts/chants should decrease with each paragon in your group ^^

IllusiveMind · Apr 29, 2007, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Balancing skills is kinda hard to work it out, but your suggestions are great ideas for the Paragon class. What gets abused gets nerfed, and Incoming! suffered it twice. I really like the Flesh Wound buff, seems useful after Remedy Signet and toss a Cruel Spear afterwards

Evilsod · Apr 29, 2007, 07:24 PM // 19:24

They could always just give Incoming a 'this skill is deactivated for 20 seconds for you and all party members'. The same sorta thing that the absoultely useless Rit Weapon/Item spells do when a spell is cast on you.

Then just buff its duration again so its not retarded. Would stop it been abused through chaining and recharge reduction to create a permanent 50% reduction. Something like:

'Elite Shout, for 1...4..5 seconds, all party members take 50% less damage from all sources. This skill is deactivated for 20 seconds for you and all other party members.'

Its a little unorthodox, but seriously, its utter tripe at the moment.

From what i've seen of Defensive Anthem from vD. Its a very potent skill as it is, specially as the meta seems to be Aegis vs Mirror of Disenchantment, its mainly used to protect casters or allies that are trying to retreat.

FoxBat · Apr 29, 2007, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Flesh Wound is already used a fair bit. If you have two paragons in a GvG build, this is probably one of their elites. It frees up your monk to bring something like Divert Hexes, plus the RC guy can't save himself with 6 second mending touch when conditions are stacked on him (which is a very common situation)

I don't see the point of turning Power is Yours into blood ritual, as paragons on an SF team already use BiP. This isn't an easy skill to fix though, since Anet is so worried about giving monks endless energy sources that lead to boring stalemate games. Id rather see the party-wide buff become better balanced so it's something you use to support a caster heavy team rather than monk battery.

bhavv · Apr 29, 2007, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Incoming should be the original duration, but end after it has prevented 40-100 damage.

Defensive anthem should not be stripped when an ally uses an attack skill.

The power is yours should just give a clean 7 or 8 energy to all party members.... Hello, elite version of [skill]"never give up!"[/skill]

Its just a flesh wound is fine imo.

On my hero para, I actually rune either cautery signet, or the monks signet of removal if I also have sogolon.

Evilsod · Apr 29, 2007, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Incoming should be the original duration, but end after it has prevented 40-100 damage.

That would be worse than it already is...

Curse You · Apr 30, 2007, 02:20 AM // 02:20

"The Power is Yours" in its current state is rather pitiful. Sure people have used it to good effect, but the skill lacks flexibility. In its current form, it's hardly worth an elite slot, since "Never Give Up!" can do almost the same thing, with no negative effect suffered. Heck, the skill has even earned the GuildWiki "Lame Award" (see here).

Series · Apr 30, 2007, 03:18 AM // 03:18

Useless elites? Paragons have a lot of useless skills elite or non! That may be ok for a profession with 130 skills... but Paragons have 75 and most suck! Especially the elites... whenever I see a Paragon in high rated GvG and whatnot, he is almost always using an elite mesmer hex removal as opposed to a Paragon elite, just because Paragon elites aren't worth taking...

Anet, please fix the Paragon

snikerz · Apr 30, 2007, 03:35 AM // 03:35

i like your Flesh Wound idea the most, 2 adren could be too much if you invest highly, so scale it 0..1
put it like this "if a condition was removed, you gain 0..1 adrenaline"